In January, 2024, Hozac Books published All Over the Place – The Rise of The Bangles From the LA Underground – an overdue and comprehensive biography of the band written by Eric M. Shade. The book is nearing its second pressing and will soon be available in brick-and-mortar stores and (hopefully) as an eBook as well as its current availability directly through the Hozac Books website.
Shade is a fan from his high school days and the book was born out of an abbreviated bio he started back then. Fueled by the support and encouragement of social media followers and the idle time left on his hands during the pandemic, he set to tell the whole story – from their childhoods in the L.A. Valley singing along to AM radio in their parent’s cars, to the success of their hits like “Walk Like an Egyptian” and “Manic Monday,” through breakups and reunions, to their current post-Bangles endeavors. The book often goes into painstaking detail, recounting intimate events from decades ago that invoke the kinds of imagery you could only hope for when reading a biography, and one not often enough present in the steady stream of rock books hitting the shelves so frequently in recent years.
The story hasn’t been told yet, in this level of detail at least. There was a VH1 Behind the Music that aired around a late-90s reunion, and that’s about it. There are appearances by rock & roll royalty and fringe characters alike, from Bruce Springsteen, Prince, Kim Fowley, Rodney Bingenheimer, and even The Beatles, to name a few. Fowley makes repeat appearances around attempts to get in with the band and direct their career in ways only he could have imagined, his persistence both admirable and annoying. Springsteen had the clout to be asked his yea or nay by CBS/Columbia record execs after being dragged to a Bangles show in 1983 just prior to their signing with them, thanks to Bruce’s “yea,” And Prince, clearly enamored with Susanna Hoffs, donates a hit song, shows up at random, unexpected times, jumps on stage, hosts jam sessions, and disappears just as randomly. There’s no shortage of celebrity in the book.
It’s an easy read but written with a level of detail and complexity that elevate it closer to the fantastic Keith Richards book Life, than, say, some of the less detailed and more “basically crafted” (though still very enjoyable in their own ways) books by or about some of the harder rocking cast of the Sunset Strip and 70s/80s rock and metal scenes. Fans of great rock bios - especially ones that rise above the flock a bit - and fans of The Bangles will most certainly want a copy.
Eric agreed to a chat and dialed into the Pencil Storm compound from his home in eastern Pennsylvania. We got in depth about his story, the book, and the band; present, past, and future, and hopefully left no stone unturned.
Jeremy Porter (Pencil Storm): Hey Eric! Great to meet ya! Thanks for joining me today! Let’s start with a little history - Is this your first book? What is your history as a writer/author?
Eric Shade (Author, All Over the Place): Well, it’s the first book that I’ve written seriously. I’ve been writing over the years on and off a lot. I have a book that I’ve been working on since high school, which was many moons ago, and I’m still working on, about Indo-European religious practices and mythology and other things. A lot different that what I’m pursuing here! But yeah, this is the first one where I was sort of “let’s do this, let’s try to get it published and get it out.”
JP: So it’s always been book form?
ES: Yeah, I prefer research writing. I don’t really write much fiction.
JP: The next logical question is what is your history with the Bangles? Were you a super-fan, and how did that manifest into this?
ES: That goes back to high school, back to the mid-80s, when I first discovered them, which I cover in the introduction to the book. So we’re talking junior high school. Like most people I latched on to “Manic Monday” and “Walk Like and Egyptian” at the time. There was something that resonated with them for me – the harmonies and the jangle, especially after I picked up a copy of All Over the Place. It reminded me of those ‘60s tunes I would hear coming out of my mom’s car radio and her record collection. It invoked something inside of me because it was familiar, but it had a modern freshness to it. So I just took off from there. Now, granted that not everyone in my peer group was on the same page as me! They’d ask “Why aren’t you listening to Ozzy?” or something like that. But yeah, they were always there, even after they broke up in `89, I was always looking for information about what they were doing, picking up their solo albums, sort of following along.
Back in the 80s I’d written a sort of early, early… version of their biography, and that sort of stuck in the back of my head. Then when the pandemic hit I started talking to people on Facebook, which I’d resisted for a long, long time, and I fell into this Bangles group, and there seemed to be a lot of interest, like “Wow, you seem to really know a lot – you should write a book!” So I thought…well, I’ve got the time, so I took what they said to heart and started writing it from there.
JP: Funny you mentioned people asking why you weren’t listening to Ozzy or whatever. Did you read the Chuck Klosterman book (Fargo Rock City) about growing up a metalhead in North Dakota. There’s a passage in that book about how it’s somehow cool for even metalheads to like The Bangles.
ES: I haven’t read that book, but I have heard that same sentiment from various people all over the map when it comes to music. That The Bangles had a certain quality to them that was universal. You know they themselves would play with punk groups like Black Flag. I think when the talent is there and you are open-minded to other points of view when it comes to music, that you just recognize that it’s good. I was talking to someone the other day about how there’s country and hard rock and soft rock and all this, but really there’s just two categories – good and bad. And I thought – that’s good! I like that!
JP: Before we get into the meat of the book, tell me about Hozac books - how did you connect with them?
ES: That was kismet. I had self-published an early version of this book – 120 copies – mostly for the people in that Facebook group of mine, just sort of paying it forward like “Here’s what I did. You guys might appreciate it!” Then it started leaking out, like “This guy’s got a book, and it’s really good, and you might want to get a copy before it sells out.” in social media and stuff like that.
I couldn’t have done a lot of what I did with this book without their help. And you may have seen that we just lost one of our founding members Annie, who I credited in the book as “The Finder of Lost Articles.” If this book had a co-writer-in-spirit it was her, so she’s missed.
So the girlfriend of the head publisher at Hozac heard about it, and she told her boyfriend, Todd, and said “I think this is something that might interest Hozac, and would have a far wider audience. Why don’t you make contact with him?” and it just took off from there. As a writer, I mean, that’s the greatest thing you can ask for.
JP: Very organic.
ES: Yeah, I mean, I’d written a few publishers around that time and never got a response, which was what I’d expected, so this was just luck, very cool.
JP: OK let’s get into the book and talk about a few takeaways from the story – some of the characters and situations that make it so interesting. And there are few characters in rock and roll more interesting than Kim Fowley, eh? He was a recurring character, from his efforts forming The Runaways with Micki, then approaching Susi when she was looking to form a new band, then trying to get into the Bangles inner-circle, then causing the scene outside their record release show… Had he gotten his way and become a key player in their timeline, things would have been a lot different eh? I don’t think there’d have been The Runaways without him, but how do you think the Bangles trajectory would have been different? I mean, there probably would have never been “The Eternal Flame” I would imagine.
ES: I’ve never really considered what might happened. I don’t think they would have gone for this, or lasted as long as they did had this happened, but maybe something like Vanity 6 with lingerie and songs full of innuendo. I don’t think he would have allowed them to record the kinds of songs they were writing at the time, like stuff that Cherie Currie was presenting to The Runaways, stuff that Micki (Steele, original Runaways and later Bangles bassist) thought was “stupid.” I just don’t think it would have happened – it would have fallen apart before it started. It’s just not them. He tried to recreate that Runaways formula several times after that and it never worked out after The Runaways.
JP: You could argue that it never even really worked with The Runaways. I mean, they had some success in Japan or whatever, but they never got really got really big, there weren’t piles of cash coming in or anything.
ES: No, that’s true. Their reputation and success is mostly in hindsight.
JP: The level of detail, especially in the early years, is astounding. Like, conversations that happened in bedrooms, cars, or kitchens, this specific rehearsal or that family event. How were you able to get to that level of detail about events that happened 40 years or more ago?
ES: Well, first of all, minute detail is my thing. When I tackle a subject, I get deeeep into the subject. When I started this, there was a short list of people I really wanted to talk to; their old fan club manager Mojo, and people like that. I used Facebook for what it was actually intended to be used for – I actually found a few of these people and once they got past the suspicions – because there was a log of suspicion, like what’s his intentions here? Is he a male groupie? Or is he being exploitative? But once they realized that I was truly interested in what made the group tick, they’d open up to me. And a lot of times they’d say “Maybe you should talk to this person…” or someone who booked them at this club, and so forth. There was a lot of collect the dots, and I found out things that I had no ideas I was going to run into.
So one person had this piece of the jigsaw puzzle and another had that piece, and I just wanted to fit them together and share what I’d learned with everybody. I was starting to learn about things that The Bangles themselves were talking about or referencing in more recent interviews where they had forgotten a lot of the details and they were getting a little…incorrect in their assessment! It was an interesting process.
JP: Did you get participation from the band? Or inner-circle people?
ES: Yes and no. When I first started this, I talked to their PR manager, her name was Gracie, and I don’t think they’re with her anymore. But anyway, we talked and she said they were busy and that they had other projects in the fire. And I was ok with that. It was never really my goal to be focused on talking to The Bangles themselves because their memory is foggy, and I think when you’re in the eye of the hurricane, you lose perspective on a lot of things. I wanted to talk to people in the periphery who were on the outside looking in, and have better insights as to what was the actual mechanics of it, and I think that was true my instincts were actually right there.
But as time went on I did eventually manage to speak to Annette (Zilinskas, original bassist), and I got some feedback from Susanna (Hoffs), and Vicki (Peterson, guitarist) and just a little bit from Debbi (Peterson, drummer), like two or three little things, but mostly from Annette, who would pass on things I was writing to the others, and send suggestions, like maybe re-write this, or that’s not quite the way it actually happened. But that was near the end, and to be honest there was very little I had that needed to be re-written or edited – it was really airtight, and that goes back to me being very meticulous.
JP: One of the reoccurring themes in the book is the inevitable comparisons between the Go-Gos and The Bangles. On one hand, you can point to lazy journalism and sexism as the reasons for the constant comparisons, but if we’re being honest, the comparisons are difficult to objectively ignore: an all-female band was an anomaly at that time, and their Sunset Strip roots, their both being under Miles Copeland’s umbrella, and they were both active for a window of several years. The book paints a picture of camaraderie and respect, but do you think there was more to it than that? I kinda felt that between the lines things weren’t maybe so as copacetic as it appeared on the surface.
ES: I think when The Bangles broke nationwide and worldwide they tried to distance themselves as much as possible from the Go-Gos without being rude about it. Sort of keeping everything at arm’s length. They had respect for them – Susanna, when she was trying to get a group together, was inspired by going to Go-Gos shows. In the later days and even currently they work on each other’s projects. Susanna’s worked with Charlotte, and Vicki was a fill-in Go-Go for a time, so they do have that respect.
I’ve never really looked into it, so I can’t say what the Go-Gos thought of The Bangles at the time. But The Go-Go’s paved the way, broke the door open. And there’s the famous saying by Vicki to Miles Copeland: “I don’t want to be the poor man’s Go-Gos.”
JP: Yeah, there’s a long history of that in rock and roll journalism. I mean, Julian Lennon never did an interview where he wasn’t asked about John, right? So they did play it safe and kindly distance themselves, but it had to be more annoying then they ever let on.
ES: Yeah, it was. I think it was Debbi that said she couldn’t pick up an article about The Bangles where The Go-Gos weren’t mentioned in the first two sentences. But people also have to realize that there’s an almost definite dividing line. The Go-Gos were the first half of the ‘80s, they came out in ‘80/’81 and just as they were starting to splinter apart in ‘84/’85 when Jane (Wiedlin, guitarist) first left, and things like that, that’s just when the Bangles were exploding. So I don’t think they stepped on each other’s toes like the media tried to portray.
JP: As someone who comes from a punk background, and my favorite Bangles’ era is their earlier, rawer stuff prior to Different Light, I love the crossover with the LA punk scene – bands like Black Flag and Social Distortion (a personal favorite) come up quite often, mentions of Minutemen and X a few times, which I loved, and it seems like it was always amicable on both sides. It had to be intimidating for a guitar- driven, yes, but also significantly poppier and more retro-sounding band to open for Black Flag with their rage, volume, and chaos? What was your take on those “odd” bills – were they something the band embraced or dreaded?
ES: No, I think those cross-connections were something that The Bangles and every group, really, actually embraced. After the first wave of punk went through LA, a lot of the club owners weren’t taking in music anymore because it’d left a foul taste in their mouth; you know, with the fights, the police presence, vandalism, all sorts of things. So when a band was lucky enough to find a venue that they could play, and they needed an opening act, no matter who it was, they would say yes. It was beneficial to everybody. So the styles might have been different, but they were all on the same page when it came to promoting and selling and getting friends out and whatever.
And that’s how the whole Paisley Underground scene sort of fell together. One band had a show and they needed an opener, and who wants it? You know? It was like dangling meat in front of a shark.
I always compare it to the Haight-Asbury scene in San Fransisco, you know? Bands like The Dead and Jefferson Airplane, and Big Brother. They all fed off each other. And the audiences cross-supported each other. And that’s what happened with The Bangles and Rain Parade and Salvation Army, and all those other groups. There was enough rawness and talent there that even the punk crowd – even though it wasn’t their music – could appreciate, and give it their thumbs up. It was a good community that I don’t thing exists in music anymore.
JP: Yep, not as much, that’s for sure.
ES: Nope, not as much.
I found it interesting how you didn’t sugar-coat the production issues with Different Light, and it seems like the band weren’t thrilled with it either. There was a line that read something to the extent that Susanna’s trademark Rickenbacker was all but missing from the mix. I always thought the songs on that album were pretty strong, but it’s the worst production of their catalog, and at moments it’s so dated and polished it’s almost cringe-worthy to me. The flipside, of course, is that it’s the album that broke them into the mainstream, and they had to be thankful for that, but conflicted. How do you think those competing forces – the abandonment of their core, rocking sound and the success that resulted – ultimately played out for them emotionally?
ES: Well that’s the strange dichotomy of success. On one hand you want the fame and the recognition nationwide or worldwide. But on the other hand, are you willing to make concessions for that? To your sound or your name?
It’s no secret, and hasn’t been, that there was friction with David Kahne (producer, All Over the Place and Different Light) once they signed on with CBS/Columbia. It started with their first album but really exploded with Different Light, around his vision of what the band should be and sound like, and the personality conflicts. But, on the other hand, he did what CBS assigned him to do – he made the album a hit. After All Over the Place became a consistent seller, CBS said “We’re gonna take the next album and shove it up the audience’s ass!” you know, and that’s what happened – they did what they said they were going to do.
Now what did it do to them as artists? It all happened so rapidly that I don’t think they quite grasped the impact of it all until they were out on the road promoting it. Here we are – we have to deal with keyboards and arenas now. We’re in the eye of the hurricane.
And ultimately I think it led to their breakup in the ‘80s because it happened so fast and it was so foreign to what they had grown out of with that community of punks helping the pop bands and the Paisley Underground and fanzines talking about hardcore and punk bands but also giving a spotlight to groups like The Bangs. It was like going from one reality to another one, and I don’t think they had any time or preparation for it. They didn’t know what they were in for.
JP: I also liked the section around “Walk Like an Egyptian,” which the band, except Debbi, was mostly in favor of doing, it seemed. It wasn’t their only hit, by any means, but was a key element in their breakthrough to superstardom. I think most hardcore Bangles fans aren’t big fans of that song or “The Eternal Flame,” but most causal fans probably know those two the most, or maybe even only those songs. Where do you stand on “Walk Like an Egyptian” and “Eternal Flame?”
ES: “Egyptian” was never, at least in the band’s head, going to be a single. That was management and CBS’ decision. They thought it was commercial and goofy enough and it might catch on, and they were right. The Bangles needed material for the album and they were coming up short, and it was there and a novelty, and hey, let’s do it. And it took on a life of it’s own that they never expected.
My personal opinion? Yeah, it’s a novelty song, and it’s unfortunate that so many people think that that is The Bangles sound. For me it comes and goes. I don’t love it, I don’t hate it. I sing along if it comes on the radio. I lived through that era. But even in the most commercial era of the band, that’s not their sound.
“Eternal Flame” was just proms and weddings, and you just couldn’t escape it, and I think it was just a matter of over-saturation. And again, it has a synthetic backing. The band didn’t have much to do on it. I mean, Vicki plays a short solo and there are backup vocals, but other than that it’s not really The Bangles sound. And at the time they were tying to push the label and management to get a broader view of what the band was about, but it was already pretty much over at this point.
If you want a more representative single to what the band sounded like at that time, “Hazy Shade of Winter” is a better choice. It wasn’t written by them, obviously, but was truer to their sound than anything that had been put out around Different Light or Everything.
JP: In the end, it’s a pretty classic and common tale of ego, exhaustion, in-fighting, and greedy record executives tearing a great band to shreds. It’s got the stereotypical focus on the reluctantly-dubbed lead-singer, the rise from garages and basements to superstardom, and the eventual implosion. What it’s missing are the sex and drugs. Were those elements really not a part of the story? Or was some of that left out intentionally out of respect for the players, or to set the story apart? I mean, objectively, it seems very unlikely that there were no drugs or sex that night when all the Paisley Underground bands camped out on Catalina Island.
ES: No, it’s really true that they were squeaky clean. When I interviewed people, that was one of the first things we addressed. It was like “What are you looking for with these questions, because there is no dirt to be had here.” And there really wasn’t. Now, Micki and Susanna have said that in their young days they would experiment like most people do, but by the time they were in the band, there was really nothing. If you want scandal you’re just not going to find it with this group.
When they got back together in the 90s and did that Behind the Music they never thought that that would fly because there’s no drama, no sex and drugs. So they had to play up the group infighting angle. But they are a squeaky clean, two Catholics, a Jew, and a WASP kind of band.
JP: What were some of the challenges you encountered while writing the book? Anyone you really wanted to talk to but couldn’t? Anything you had to leave out for space or because it could be verified?
ES: There was nothing I had to leave out. Like we were just saying, they were squeaky clean and there was nothing for anyone to really take objection to. So in that regard I was lucky that I didn’t have to bite my tongue.
There were a small handful of people I wanted to talk to but couldn’t. Like I said, I was told that The Bangles had their own projects going on, which apparently includes a memoir, which they’ve been talking about for a long time, but I’m not sure if it’s happening or going to happen or whatever. But there were some people I really wanted to talk to, people very close, in the inner-circle. And they even agreed to talk to me, but when the time came around they would say “I’ve been asked not to participate.” And that was sad and unfortunate, because I guess they thought I was going to step on toes or whatever they were writing about. It was nothing that I couldn’t really compensate for. I just had to go other routes and through other people.
JP: How long was the process from conception to the first DIY version of the book?
ES: The DIY, self-released version took about two, two and a half years. My initial intent was to only focus on the early years and end when they released “Manic Monday” but that just didn’t feel right. So I decided to go until they broke up in `89, but that was just a bummer. So I think where I ended up now, with the Paisley Underground reunion shows and the group’s in a comfortable little niche in the musical firmament now, I think that’s a good ending.
By the time Hozac got involved I had another 8-10 months to go back and keep writing, and rock and rollers have no sense of time, so a lot of the people I was chasing down the first time around wanted to talk or had more to add, so I had another 20-40,000 more words to add to it. So there’s a lot more in this version.
JC: Ok let’s wrap up with a couple non-book related things if that’s ok.
I’m a big fan of the “Ladies and Gentlemen” LP that came out on Record Store Day, 2014, but my bucket list would be a stripped-down, raw mix of Different Light or a proper live album from 86 or earlier. It seems RSD would be the perfect vehicle for such a release. A good documentary is overdue. Do you think there’s any chance of anything like that or other Bangles releases coming down the pike?
ES: There’s a lot of buzz that a documentary is in the works. I’m not privy to that kind of insider information, but there’s rumors going around. The next 2-3 years is going to be a push to maybe promote the band’s……last hurrah, but also to get them into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, so I think things will be happening in the coming years.
They’ve always wanted to have a live album come out, and remastering and things like that, and it just never happened for whatever reason. Either procrastination, or the labels didn’t think it was marketable or viable or whatever. There are some releases that have slipped through copyright loopholes in Italy or whatever, that legal grey area.
JP: It’s interesting because there’s a band like Dream Syndicate who were never as big as The Bangles. Their stuff is remastered, bonus tracks, retro-live releases – all sorts of stuff. Do they just have their shit together more, or…?
ES: Even the Continental Drifters, Vicki’s other group, they even have anthologies and stuff like that. With The Bangles it was always yay or nay with the whole group and sometimes they were just never collectively on board. Ladies and Gentlemen was supposed to have this booklet and photos and memories and all this stuff along with it, but a member of the band just didn’t go for it. Originally it was just supposed to be a download, you know? Which it was for about two years until Vicki got them to release it physically.
I’ve made my own sort of deluxe versions of the catalog, and I think, “wow – they should release THIS!” you know, but…
JP: I get the sense from the book that you’re a collector of live recordings. There’s mentions of known recordings of this show or that show. Are you? And if so, what are some of your favorite bootleg recordings of the band? I love the 84 NYC show, and the soundcheck from Pittsburgh in 86 is pretty great, but after that it’s mostly audience or rougher soundboards that I’ve heard.
ES: I’m not great with dates and venues and stuff. But I do know that the 83 Magic Mountain show, with the sound quality and the setlist for that time, was very good. That was the show where Bruce Springsteen gave the thumbs up and got the ball rolling.
There are several from the early Different Light tour that are very good. So we’re talking about February, March of `86 in Europe. They’re raw and a little unsteady, but in a good way with that material. Debbi was singing “Not Like You” which didn’t last very long in the setlist, so that was a rarity, and then you have the concerts from `87 when they were trying out some of the material that would wind up on Everything and they were also starting to revisit some of the early material from the early recordings, like the EP and stuff like that.
Then, after the resurrection, some shows around `98-`99. A good one from around that time was from San Fransisco. So any of those reunion shows up to 2004, when Micki retired, are worthwhile. They also did a lot of acoustic stuff around then. So if you want a stripped down version of Different Light, listen to those sets.
I heard the rough mixes of Different Light not long ago. That might be about as close as we get.
Yeah, I just made contact with the right person who had those, and I’d never met anyone else who had that, and well, now they’re out there.
Columbia Records Promo Cassette, photo © René Seghers
Micki seems to be all but retired these days. Susi put out a new album and book in the last year. Debbi is the touring drummer for Matthew Sweet, and Vicki has been playing shows as a duo with her husband and says she doubts the Bangles will play together again. I’m not so sure about that. I think there’s a big market for nostalgia and reunions these days, and it’s hard to leave money on the table for long. What are your thoughts on the future of the band and how things might play out in the coming years?
ES: Yeah, as we’ve discussed, there are supposedly projects on the table, and it would be shocking if there wasn’t any promotion around those things. I mean, you’re not going to release a memoir in a vacuum. Will there be an extensive tour or an album? That I can’t say, but I would bet dimes to dollars that there will be a few shows, you know, in the next few years. I think they’re all pursuing their own projects, maybe just getting the juices flowing again, getting their wants, desires, and solo works fulfilled, and out of their system, then come back for a few more shows.
JP: Fire up the machine one last time.
ES: Exactly. I think it would be great to have it all tied up in a nice little bow with a goodbye to the fans.
JP: And finally, what’s next for you? Any more books or projects on the horizon? Anything else you’d like to mention or talk about?
ES: Yeah, I want to keep writing books, that one I was telling you about that I’ve been working on since high school, but that’s a mountain – like at least a two volume thing, very dry. I don’t expect writeups about that. My wife, she helps me edit some of my stuff, and she’s not looking forward to even looking at that! But as far as more rock and roll stuff, I am starting to look at a blog, or maybe that’s a little out of date, but an online presence where you check out some of my writings, smaller things. Maybe that will lead to some outlets here and there, get the juices going, get that spark.
I’ve been thinking about REM lately!
That would be awesome! Ok, well hey, thanks for the time, and for the book! As a mega-fan, it’s much appreciated!
ORDER THE BOOK HERE
THE BANGLES WEBSITE
Other Jeremy Porter articles about Bangles/Bangles Related
The Bangles Catalog Ranked (2020)
Concert Review: The Dream Syndicate with Vicki Peterson and John Cowsill
Jeremy Porter lives near Detroit and fronts the rock and roll band Jeremy Porter And The Tucos. Follow them on Facebook to read his road blog about their adventures on the dive-bar circuit.
www.thetucos.com
www.facebook.com/jeremyportermusic
www.rockandrollrestrooms.com
Twitter: @jeremyportermi | Instagram: @onetogive & @jeremyportermusic
